Full Transcript
Mike Meyer 0:03
I was shocked when I would go to these, especially like large corporations or grant funders. And I would say, you know, thank you so much for your support. And one of the first things they would say is, thank you so much for sending those emails, I get a lot of emails, and I don't read part of the Kenyan, but I read almost every one of yours because they're short. And they've got great pictures and and I forward them to all my friends. And I like really
Monica Pitts 0:35
you're on a mission, and you just need more people to know about it. And whether you're brand new to marketing or a seasoned pro, we are all looking for answers to make marketing decisions with purpose. I'm Monica Pitts, a techie crafty business owner, mom and aerial dancer who solves communication challenges through technology. This podcast is all about digging in and going digital, I'll share my marketing know how in business experience from almost 20 years of misadventures, I'll be your backup dancer. So you can stop doubting, and get moving towards marketing with purpose. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to marketing with purpose, I have an inspirational story to bring to you today. One that I think is really fun simply because I see the possibility. And every thing literally like if I am one of my favorite things to do is go to thrift stores and find things and when I was younger, I would go and find pieces of clothing. And I would alter them into anything from curtains to just being able to be wearable objects. And so when Mike reached out to me and told me about his nonprofit organization, where they collect used instruments, and then they distribute them out to kids in the community, and not just in his community actually, like, way farther reaching than that, and then teach them how to play them. I'm like, that's even better. Like we're repurposing and it's totally awesome. So, Mike, I'm gonna stop talking, and I'm gonna let you introduce yourself. Tell us about you and your organization.
Mike Meyer 2:13
Yeah, so my name is Mike Meyer, from the Kansas City area and grew up in a family business here, which we still operate today. It's 57 years old mom and dad started it. And we're in the retail music business. So we work with lots of kids in schools and education. And then my other half that I were started just about 13 years ago now. And it is a nonprofit that I started called band of angels. And it kind of started from, we would be working with students and parents and we always had kids that would come in to either schools or the store and, and they were not able to, you know, rent a music instrument, so they would not be able to be in the program at school. And so I thought, gosh, no, we've sold so many of these, that there's a lot of them in a closet that aren't being used. And wouldn't it be cool if we could get those back out? And then when that scenario presents itself, we just pair them up. And so that's what band of angels does. And so I'm super excited. So I kind of wear two hats.
Monica Pitts 3:16
The business owner hat and the executive director had it sounds like,
Mike Meyer 3:21
yeah, yeah, it's been a real interesting journey, you know, when you have grown up with a family business, and then certainly I've been in it for 30 years. It's, you know, it's a for profit business. And so then to navigate and learn and understand the nonprofit world, and the sector in the way it operates, was a big learning curve. So they, they operate similarly, but very much differently. And so it's been really fun to have both sides. I think having the business knowledge is really making probably much better at the other side. So I'm glad I had that first. But yeah, it's definitely a learning experience.
Monica Pitts 3:57
I'm glad you like shared that was because I was going to ask like, how did being a business owner prepare you for running a nonprofit? Because that's, I mean, there are a lot the same in that you have processes and you do you need money to operate, you need funds, but then there are a lot different to and probably the way that you talk about yourself and present yourself. So anything else you'd like to add about that? Like how did being that business owner prepare you to start and run a nonprofit organization?
Mike Meyer 4:26
Well, I think that most people have to understand that a nonprofit is a business. And really, you need to operate the same way. The only difference is in the for profit business. You come out with a bunch of money at the end, and everybody's success is like awesome. In the nonprofit business, you're really kind of not supposed to do that. And but the truth is, and I think most of the nonprofit funders are getting smarter about this because they weren't really thinking this. They're thinking much more about sustainability now. And if you don't have access that happens that You can put into a reserve fund than you really are not sustainable. And I think a lot of probably nonprofits, especially early in the career fall into that trap, I came at it from a different angle, in that not only did I want to use the funds wisely, but I also wanted to grow a reserve fund that made us sustainable in case something happens to me. Because as the founder, you know, you're the dawn who works with me calls me the chief vision here. And if that Chief Visionary goes away, oftentimes a lot of fundraising in the context that they brought to go with them. So my goal now is to try and build an organization that's sustainable after I'm gone, if something happens to me tomorrow, I want this to be able to continue on and, and in order to do that, you really have to operate with the same business principles, you would on the for profit side. So I came at it also came at it from the, we're going to do a lot more fundraising upfront, even before the need exists. So that when the need catches up with that, we aren't sitting there going, Gosh, I would really love to do that. But I don't have the money. But I wanted to be able to have the money when the when the opportunity presented itself. And so that's proven to be a pretty smart strategy to that some, some of the folks didn't get what I was trying to do at the beginning. But I think that's very, very big, you know, you have to operate it that way.
Monica Pitts 6:26
So you have been operating this nonprofit for a long time. And there have been a lot of changes that have happened over that time. Like I have felt many of these changes, as a business owner for 18 years very acutely, especially since I build websites and deal in technology, like we've had so many huge changes and overhauls that we've had to do on our systems, and processes, and even just like how we deliver products to people. So tell me about some of the changes that you've felt as you've operated your organization through the years like what are some of the biggest differences that stand out to you?
Mike Meyer 7:04
Well, the probably the biggest difference was, you know, the whole idea was going to be that we were going to take a donated product, and we were going to pair it with a person and there wouldn't be a ton of expense in between those two things. What we have since learned is that making that connection isn't cheap, it takes people it takes resources, and it takes time. And so that's the biggest thing. And so when we first started, you know, we were doing it on a shoestring using employees of our store to help kind of execute it. And then we really realized that at certain point, we were beyond that, like if we were going to really make a substantive change in this student's life, we need to be able to dedicate the resources to make that connection, the best it can be. Our organization not only does care of the instrument with the student, but it is then to provide them with musical opportunities that help build an equity system that put them on a level playing field with all their peers, when they ascend to potentially maybe going auditioning for state or district Music Festival, or better yet, even then a college scholarship. So there was a lot more equity pieces that we had to put in place as we went along that we really probably didn't think about. And then of course, you run into this, this little thing nobody's heard of called COVID, that every bit of funding that was coming your way from any grant source automatically got redirected to Health and Human Services type places, and the arts were you know, secondary, as you know, everybody thought they should be at that time. And that was fine. But we really had to go okay, gosh, you know, what did we do? That was when the business strategy of building a reserve fund really kicked in, like, we weren't worried we didn't have to let anybody go. We just shifted the way we did our connections with the students. But the truth was, those students still needed music, they still needed support. And in fact, they needed it more than they ever did when they were in school because now they were isolated. So we definitely had to change the way that we approached the students and the way that we made the connections. But other than that, just growing the team, you know, now going from a founder who was just one guy doing this as a pet project to now three and a half employees and, and then really being able to manage our finances and and make sure that we're doing all that stuff, right. So there's been a lot of changes along the way. Lots of changes.
Monica Pitts 9:46
So do you still I imagine during COVID You guys probably transitioned to like a virtual school kind of model. Do you still offer like virtual lessons now? Is that something that you care? read into afterwards or did you guys go back to having more? Like, I know you guys have camps and that kind of stuff too, right? Am I? Right? Yeah.
Mike Meyer 10:09
Yeah, so the thing about animations is we don't actually put on the camp, we simply find the scholarships to send the students to the camp. So those camps. And the reason we do that is because there is no one size fits all for a student, we want that student to go to the camp that best suits their needs. If that means jazz studies with the instructor in New York, then that's one place they would go if that means going to a concert band clinic at University of Kansas in Kansas than that, that so we want to pair up the students with the right places that they want to go. So it's, you know, that's, that's our main focus. And I got away from the question asked me the question again, because I got, I kind of think I got away from what you were asking,
Monica Pitts 10:56
Well, it sounds like you guys allowed the purveyors of the teaching to adjust their teaching styles and the way that you communicated with the students probably adjusted as well. I just wondered if that continued into the future or if it not virtual at all anymore?
Mike Meyer 11:16
Yes. Okay. Thank you for bringing me back on there. It did for a year or two. And then I think that that has somewhat fallen away, which is, I think unfortunate, because I still want to make that an option. But the reality is, it requires a lot more technology than a lot of people think, to make it really have the effect that you want to have. During COVID, we did shift to a virtual model, and funded the entire camp pretty much for University of Kansas, Midwestern Music Camp, here was the really cool thing that happened. Previous to COVID, there was about 300 people that attended that camp, each summer in person, when we went to the virtual model. And most of those kids that attended in person were from the Kansas, maybe Missouri because we're close to the border of those two state. When we went to the virtual model, during COVID, we'd had 1900. And I think 50 Students attend from 46 states and five different countries. We paid for each of the instructors at KU to create virtual content and YouTube content that for the students to consume, along with Zoom sessions where they could get in, you know, hundreds of kids at the same time. And when we added up all the interactions, it was like 18,000, I think, or 11, sorry, 11,800 interactions that happen in a three day period. So that would like 11,000 lessons, that wouldn't have happened otherwise. So while it was a challenge, it was a huge win. And it showed us the potential, it also opened up the opportunity for some of the camps to continue to use virtual speakers. Because now it was acceptable to have a student or a teacher, zoom in from LA. So we had a couple of amazing artists zoom in from North Carolina from New York from LA right there to the auditorium at Kansas the following year. And at home students could sign on. So it's some of that as far away, but I hope that some of it stays like the virtual clinicians will still stay as a part of the camp.
Monica Pitts 13:30
While I don't love all the things that COVID afforded us, as a society, I really do love all the options for virtual education. I take aerial classes, and we have people joining us from other places, which is so incredibly cool. And then also like I take classes occasionally from a lady who does workshops over in the UK, like I just don't know if that would have happened. So it's, I think it's pretty awesome. So one question that I have like transitioning away from from virtual things. I know that a lot of arts organizations have a challenge, expressing their value, right? They say, Oh, well, people don't want to donate to arts because they just think that we're doing dance classes for kids or they just think that we're teaching music and, and it makes me angry inside and sad inside when I hear that because I know that's not the case, right? And I feel like you guys do a good job of expressing the value that you're bringing to people through your organization. Can you talk a little bit about that maybe like inspire some of the other arts organizations to like, get their bride on? Like, yes, we do have them banks.
Mike Meyer 14:40
Well, that's That's very true. And I think a great deal of that happens through your social channels these days. And we've put a big emphasis on making sure that we recorded the pictures and the videos of the students getting the things now I know not every organization has that luxury and we do but sharing the On stories with the your consumer, your your grant funder, your donor is incredibly important. So if you look at our Instagram and our Facebook and our LinkedIn, I mean it has been updated regularly and receding and people are keeping, we're keeping that message in front of them, which I think is very, very important. And Christy, our person right now who's handling that does a fantastic job. I think it's just very important that you also keep that, that individual communication with them. So I was talking to another organization and speaking to them week ago, and I told him that I have created this, this email that that I call my smile emails. And I just started 12 years ago as a thing, because I got to see all the smiles from the kids and the parents and the life changing moments. And the people that were really donating the money, they didn't get to see that. And so I was like, Gosh, I wish everybody was here to experience this right now, like I'm getting to experience. So I started recording, those are just creating a picture and doing a small email directly from me, it does not go through a mail server, it comes directly from me. And in small groups, I've created some small distribution lists that I've sent it out to, it's not a small group of people anymore, there's a lot of them that go out. But it's like two paragraphs. And it would say like a smile with a tear or a smile. blown through the lower, you know, you'll feel the file from this morning, or whatever it is. And I started sending that out. And I was shocked when I would go to these, especially like large corporations or grant funders. And and I would say, you know, thank you so much for your support. And one of the first things they would say is, thank you so much for sending those emails, I get a lot of emails, and I don't read hardly anyone, but I read almost every one of yours because they're short, and they've got great pictures and and I forward them to all my friends. And I really am like, so it was a mind blower for me. But it really underscored the importance of, especially in the leadership level, you need to be communicating that to them. It does carry weight when it comes from you. And it does carry much more weight when it's not an HTML email that or a can, dear donor, you know. So we try and do a lot of personalization of the emails that we send. I'm sending the ones directly from me. And here's another thing. I don't ask for money in those emails. Now, I probably just offended every fundraiser in the country is like, Oh my God, why aren't you asking for emails, but the minute that I do, they're gonna quit reading up. So there's no asking the email. It's just, hey, I want to share this awesome moment that we have with Alexandra today. I love that. And I think you will, too. And so those are the ways we're keeping arcs in front of people. And the importance of it. To be honest with you, Monica, I was surprised by the level of support from the community for the arts, I really was I was blown away, I thought this was my little project I didn't have any idea was going to grow to this size and continuing to grow.
Monica Pitts 18:31
I really think that the thing I I want our audience if you're listening right now, I want you to take away from what he just said is that he consistently thanks his donors, and he consistently tells them the difference that they're making, by allowing him to use their generous donations to be able to spread this, like awesome gifts into the world. And by consistently communicating with them, you create, you create a relationship with them. Now, if the only thing that you do is email them and ask them for donations, they don't want to answer your emails anymore. And they unsubscribe from your list and it is not good. But by consistently communicating and thanking them. I always feel like then when I send out the email and ask for a donation, you know, let you know why. It's like I don't even really have to explain it like like, Hey, we're already friends, right? And we're on the same page and we have the same value. So I don't have to give you this huge backstory like you got it like and so I love that that's such a great lesson for everyone to take away. Telling people email marketing is is still a thing and they should do it. And they're like, just social media. And I'm like, Yeah, I mean, it has its place. They both have their place in your marketing plan. Which leads me to my my marketing question because I like to understand what people are doing. Like, what is the one thing like it could be these emails that you've done over the Here's that you feel like has really just moved the needle for you. It's helped you grow, or it's helped you gain supporters.
Mike Meyer 20:08
Without question it has to do with the t shirt that I'm wearing right now. And I didn't know you were gonna ask me that question. So this was not a planted t shirt. But we early on, wanted to build a very diverse and inclusive infrastructure and board, our events, all that stuff that was very important to me. Long before that became the popular thing to do now. I was really working towards this. And to be honest, it was very difficult to achieve. So I went to our first fundraiser that we hit. So our first fundraiser started in my house right outside this room, I'm in our living room. But it quickly grew into this gala. And that was a black tie event. And I love getting dressed up and my wife does too. And we hosted this thing. And, and it grew from, from 60 people at a restaurant lobby to now close to 500 in a in an event space. And but about the second year we did it in the event space. I looked around and I was like, Okay, I have a problem. I everybody here is 45 to 75 years old. There's no color or diversity in the room. And this is not a sustainable model. So I better figure something out quick, where are all the younger people? And where are all the communities that we serve? Right? They're not here. So we started this other, you know, fundraiser, which is a fun, whimsical one. We were collecting a lot of music instruments that we couldn't use. And so we started giving the instrument pieces and parts to artists to create art. And we do a summer art event called art that blows. It's just a fun category lack dork sundresses it's in the city. We had just under 1000 people there last year. So it's it's grown into bigger than the gala that. But we did this for four years. And we really were not getting that younger group of people that we wanted at our thing. So one of our board members and I can't take credit for this. His name is Edgar Palacios and he said, why aren't we doing friend racing? And I said, I don't know what friend raising is. But if you'll help educate me, I'd be happy to listen. And he said, Well, let's there is a group of people in Kansas City that never get asked to help. And they want to, but they don't have the deep Rolodex for the big donor dollars that you're gonna see in other things. So set a fundraising goal that's reasonable and realistic. In this case, it's $500 for them, and they have a year to do it. So it's $500, you then do a social media campaign for them. And they have stuff to put out on their social channels that shows that they're doing good in the community. And by then they are showing that you are doing good in the community. We went from 325 People aren't that close after the fourth year to 720, the fifth year, in one year, and we doubled the fundraising. And so what it showed me was like there was this whole group of the next generation of philanthropists, who most organizations are ignoring, they are not going to them and making an event that is built around them. It is not the stuffy fundraiser that many of the things that you see are. And it was different. It was fun. And we met them where they were. So that catapulted into the next year, we're now in our fifth year of the rockstars. There are 25 of them, and you can go to our social channels, and you will see them, there are 25 of them that are pushing out content all year long that we created for them. And we do all the hard work, we do all the verbiage we do a photo shoot with them take the pictures push it all out, they don't have to do very much. Last year is very raised over $70,000, this group of 25, you know, 25 to 40 year olds, they raised over $70,000 to support the organization. But they also invited all their cool, diverse, amazing friends that show all the faces of our city where we're holding the event. And that was the biggest win. So that rock stars program, I think, honestly is one of the biggest things that move the needle, and has shown that not only are we committed to an organization that embraces everyone, but we are showing and highlighting the next generations of philanthropists in our city. And we got one verse, which is never bad.
Monica Pitts 24:51
No. So I'm going to try to summarize the rock star program as I was listening to the story, okay, so you can I reached out to the demographic that you were interested in talking to. And you said, Hey, we're going to do a photo shoot with you. And we're going to create for you social media content that you're going to post throughout the year. And you have a goal of raising that you say $500 Each, yes, throughout the entire year for the organization? And do they do that in conjunction or in combination with the art that blows event? Or like how did the two connect with one another tell me that,
Mike Meyer 25:32
that's where it all ends. That's where the big celebration for their fundraising efforts for the year it's. So I actually am one of the reasons I'm wearing the t shirt is I just met with a woman here in our Kansas City area, who happens to be a social media influencer with 325,000 followers. And, and she's clearly the demographic that you would be looking for. And she just happens to be a musician. And so we met to talk through the program. So I would meet with her today, we're what is March 17, today, or may 17. And then I told her, I said, look, the nominations for these will then come out in October. So we'll send you have that email that you said, Where's your goal, you accept that November, we do a photo shoot. And then we start creating a social media campaign for them. It has five different looks. So that they have five different unique posts to push out. We create all the social media verbiage for them. And then throughout the year, they go out and they might host a fundraiser. So we have some people that are doing a bingo fundraiser, we have some people that are doing a fashion show fundraiser, that that's what their passion was. And then the proceeds all of those come back to us. That then all culminates on July 14th. This year in Kansas City, there's going to be an incredible event called art that blows. And that's where we really celebrate the rock stars, we show all the fun little stuff that you can make out the instrument parts. And it's a silent auction. So So that's like the big finish up to the campaign. And then after that, we have a private party just for them as a small gathering, we present them with their Rockstar T shirts, and their cover photo that they did on a poster board so they can put that in their office. So not only is it great marketing for them, which is important, because that's the other thing you can't it's got to be a win win, right? You just keep going to donors and asking for something, there's nothing in it for them. They're going to stop. But with this group, we've engaged them. Now here's the awesome part. We now have a rockstar Alumni Organization, which now has 100 People that have been engaged in our cause. And they love what we're doing. They've stayed engaged, several board members have come from that group, our Emerging Leaders Group, they'll transition into that, so they stay with us. But the thing ties together with art that blows they know they're raising money for art that blows and then that's when the big combination party to celebrate all their success.
Monica Pitts 28:11
So I'm sure everybody's asking themselves like, this is great. But where do you find these humans? Any like, piece of wisdom that you could impart to people who are like, man, we do want to do more peer to peer campaigns, because that's what it is you're doing peer to peer and you're really supporting them, which is one of the things is making it so successful. So how do you find these humans especially maybe think back four years, the first time that you did it? Because I bet it's easier to find them now? But like, how do you find them?
Mike Meyer 28:45
So I find him for from a variety of places. But going back to the first class that he or the guy that told me about friend raising, he had he said he was Hispanic and he had a very, very diverse friend network he lived in in, you know, downtown Kansas City area, which has been super revitalized. And it's a really cool place to be. So he went out and identified almost all of the first year's class and then there were two other people in town Scott and Aaron, who helped us gather some additional people and they participated themselves. The second year, then we went back to that rock stars test set. Okay, this was awesome. You guys crushed help help us find more friends. And so they then started the referring. So it was a combination of them helping us find them. We developed a small committee of 25 year olds who rolled in a lot of the networking circles here in town, and they help us identify them. And then to be honest with you, keep your eyes open cool. People are right in front of you all the time. And and I looked at social media. I looked for people on LinkedIn that were doing interesting posts that were engaging I wasn't looking for the homerun author, speaker person necessarily, I was just looking for somebody that was locally putting out great stuff. And I found them to them. And I just reached out to them via LinkedIn messenger. And I just said, Hey, I have this charity in Tampa, we do this really cool thing, here's a video about what we do, I would love to just sit down and have coffee with you and hear your story. And, and so that's what I'm doing. Now, what I have is I have my actually my team. So there's their three and a half people that work for us. And I'm saying to them, like you, if you see somebody that you're following, or that you think is really interesting, let me know, let's reach out to them. It doesn't work 100% of the time, but I'll be honest with you, it does work about 80% of the time. And then if it's not working with somebody that I'm very interested in, I will go back to my LinkedIn network and say, does anybody know this person or a few key people that I know know, a ton of people say anybody know this person, I would really like to meet this person, can you help make that introduction. So I'm leveraging a couple of different networks to do it. But I honestly just keep my eyes open. You know, and the woman that I met with today, she came from one of our employees that that is doing social media, saw her on social media set the scales in Kansas City, I follow her in music circles, I run into her. She's interesting, you should meet her. And so that's what I do.
Monica Pitts 31:30
I hear the business owner and you really coming out in that last answer to the question because this is like just getting scrappy, and figuring out like, and not being afraid to ask a question or ask for business. And so I, I bet that a lot of that experience of running your business, it definitely comes into play and benefits you when you're when you're like approaching people and and doing that asks to be part of your rockstar group. It sounds like it's helping you along a lot.
Mike Meyer 32:01
It really is. I think people just want to be asked for it, you have to make the first move, you know, just you have to become comfortable with being uncomfortable. Right? And so make the first move because I've been really surprised there were people that I reached out to that I thought nobody in the world is this person gonna respond to me. And they did. And then we met and they were like, I think what you're doing amazing is amazing. And I want to be a part of it. How can I be a part of it?
Monica Pitts 32:29
I love it. I love it. Okay, so as we wrap up any like, final piece of nugget or wisdom that maybe you haven't already imparted to I mean, businesses or nonprofits like I think they can both learn from the journey that you went through with band of angels, anything you want to tell them before we wrap up our conversation.
Mike Meyer 32:50
Yes, play the long game. Far too often people that get into networking and people, they get into building a business. They're playing the short game. And I have a good friend here in Kansas City named Andre that I met with for coffee one morning, and he said he's a business development guy. And so he was very into that world and, and he's like, look, Bill, build a relationship with people first, he said, You know, it's so many sales people. And so many marketers think it's like this, they're like, they meet somebody for coffee. And they sit down and talk for a couple of minutes. And they're like, Well, you know what? This sounds great. You know what? I got a ring in my pocket. My mom's out a car, I'd like to introduce you to her. Let's why don't we just do this, like you go on a first date. And imagine that that was the response. Look, people who want to be just approached to buy now look, we all know why we're being approached, right? We get. But let's take some time to develop the relationship and play the long game. And don't come in for the kiss too fast, if you will, you know, I mean, you've got to, you've got to take your time. And and, and then the second thing is, it's been incredibly helpful for me in the nonprofit space. Be humble and thankful and grateful when people donate to you. And don't be mad at your friends when they don't. Because that's a thing, a lot of good things like I can go to this person's you never know what those people find important in their life and what they may already be doing. I never ever asked with the expectation that they're going to say yes, if they do, that's awesome. And I'm excited. But I've also never asked with the expectation that I'm going to be mad at them if they don't. And I think that I just I feel like that if I don't ask I'm depriving a person an opportunity to participate. And if they choose not to participate that just wasn't for them, but they're still my friend and their store. They're still a great person and I'm going to continue to embrace it. So that's what I call playing the long game.
Monica Pitts 34:58
I love it. Play with them. long game, I 100% agree, we don't have to do things huge right out the gate, we can start small and build, learn from our mistakes and continue to develop relationships. And I think that everybody's just happier on the other end that way, like working from that place of servitude just like you do. I love it. That is great advice. So if people want to learn more about the individuals or reach out and touch, catch you, not techy like physically, but get in touch with you, how do they do that?
Mike Meyer 35:32
Well, we have a variety of social channels be individuals, Casey, I think on Instagram at band of angels on Tiktok, LinkedIn, our website is band of angels dot a work. So there's a tremendous amount of resources and contact and all of our contact information is on that site. But absolutely, please reach out to us. We're a nationwide organization that is headquartered in Kansas City, we have shipped instruments to all over the country, we have sent kids to music camps, there will be another group of them going to, to camp at about 10 different camps in 10 Different states in the next month. So if you know somebody who has a need financial need for that, please reach out to us. But we're pretty easy to find band of angels.org.
Monica Pitts 36:18
Thank you so much for joining us today. And hopefully everybody you can take a little nugget, a goodness with you, at least just like those smile emails, right? Just remember to thank people. And remember that the long game is, is going to always get you where you want to go. So thank you so much for joining us again. And thank you everybody for listening. And until next time, go forth and mark it with purpose, to get a copy of the show notes. And all those links that we just heard from our guests, head on over to May create.com and may
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