Episode Transcript
Nina Gibson 0:04
At the end of the day Google wants the user's needs to be met. And if it's aI content, they're okay with that. But they're also clearly signaling to us. Your experience from firsthand perspective matters because at this point, anybody can go to Chat GPT and be like, write me a blog post on how to budget you know, for family five, and Chat GPT can spit stuff out, you know, but Chat GPT can't write an article that says, This is how I slashed you know, our family grocery budget by $500 a month for my family of five using these five specific things. Chat GPT Can't do that. The more you infuse your personal experience and perspective that showcases that experience, that expertise, that authority and that trustworthiness, the more Google is going to reward you if you're not creating content that exudes just oozes that experience and that expertise, then you're going to have a really hard time competing.
Monica Pitts 1:04
You're on a mission and you just need more people to know about it. And whether you're brand new to marketing or a seasoned pro. We are all looking for answers to make marketing decisions with purpose. I'm Monica Pitts, a techie crafty business owner, mom and aerial dancer who solves communication challenges through technology. This podcast is all about digging in and going digital. I'll share my marketing know how and business experience from almost 20 years of misadventures, I'll be your backup dancer. So you can stop doubting, and get moving towards marketing with purpose. Hello, again, and welcome back to marketing with purpose. My name is Monica Pitts, and I am the lucky host today who gets to interview our guest, Nina Gibson. Now, I was talking with Stacy and we were making our lineup of topics. And Stacy was like, we should talk about SEO and I've got the gal for you. Her name is Nina, she is really, really smart. And she works with some of our clients to help them beef up their websites and be found on Google. So I'm excited to pick her brain today and learn all about the basics of SEO and also where it's going and 2024. So that way we can be like ready to tackle it when it hits us or maybe before it hits us before it hits us would be good. Yeah. Okay. So Nina, without further ado, tell us about yourself. And maybe tell me why you love Seo too. Because, I mean, that's kind of a dorky topic to be in love with.
Nina Gibson 2:34
Yes, um, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to talk and geek out about SEO today. And it's kind of like a nerdy thing to talk about when you really break it down. You know, and it's so funny, because if you had asked me 20 years ago, this is what I wouldn't be doing. I would have been like, nope. Because I kind of fell into it. sort of by accident. In 2008, I was working, I lost my job with the financial crash, like so many people did. And I had to recently I recently graduated with a master's degree in Human Rights and public policy. I moved back to the states from London, I was working at like a market research firm. And I was like the last one. So first one to go when all this happened. And I was unemployed for like a year. And it took me forever to find a job. And I got a job doing actually PPC Pay Per Click because and they hired me they're like, Oh, you have a research background. You have like a quantitative, you know, background, you could probably pick this up pretty quickly. And so that's sort of how this all began. And in 2009, I started working for this company and PPC lead to SEO and I've kind of I've been in the space ever since. And so I just I fell in love with it. Because I was like, Ooh, its language its words. But then there's this whole like, technical side of it. Right? Where and in 2009 2010. Like that time period, Seo was a lot different than it is today. I would say it was probably easier and more black and white. But yeah, I just fell in love with it. Because it's like a puzzle. And I love puzzles. I love piecing things together. And in 2014 No, that's not right. Yes, it let me I don't even know. 2014 Yes, 10 years ago, I was pregnant with my daughter Woo. And I was working as the director of E comm for a company. And I was like, I can't do this job. I was in Munich on a business trip. And I was like, this is not going to work with the baby. So I went out on my own as a consultant sort of built out my business while I was working my full time job and then I was able to quit and that's what I've been doing ever since.
Monica Pitts 4:36
That's an amazing story. I love it. I love it. And I agree with you SEO has changed so much even but but you know what people don't know that. They don't. My dad, who's an incredibly smart guy like super, super smart very, very tech savvy Am I say that like he runs a data center tech savvy. And the other day he was like Monica actually not the other day was it two years ago he was like Monica I really think that we need to improve the SEO on our website, like all we really need to do is put some like invisible words back there, you know? And just put in some metadata, right? And I was like, Oh, Dad, near, that's not exactly how it works. So, tell us what is SEO for the people listening who are like why? I mean, I don't know that they would be listening if they didn't have some clue what SEO is, but what is it to you? What is the problem you're solving for people?
Nina Gibson 5:30
Yeah, so in its simplest form, SEO is the Optimation optimization of your website and content, right to make it more easily found in Google search engines. When somebody types something in the way that I like to think about SEO, though, is it's the bridge between your amazing content, your amazing offer your website, and the person out there who is looking for exactly what you have. And so SEO bridges the gap between them being able to find you right in this sea of information. And I think that SEO unfortunately, gets a really bad rap for kind of what your dad said, you know, we can just throw some keywords and like, some metadata, and that it's like this really technical, like, you know, computer hard thing to understand type of thing, but it's really just about people. And it's about creating amazing content, and creating an amazing user experience on your website, that people are like, Oh, this is exactly what I need. And so I think when you kind of peel it back and look at it as a, as a people, you know, connector as an, as a way to bridge the gap between people out there who are looking for what you have, and your own content, etc, I think it becomes a little bit easier to sort of like digest, yes, there's a technical side to it. But there's so much more to it than just that.
Monica Pitts 6:51
So what are the components of SEO that you feel like business owners or website owners? Because that's most of the people that are hanging out here in my audience? People who own businesses or or websites or they run nonprofits? What do they need to be aware of the components that they might blow stuff up with?
Nina Gibson 7:11
Yeah, so not? Yeah. Not really. Metaphorically? Yeah, no, I think the the different components of SEO kind of fall into there's the technical side of it, right, which is your website, basically, and the user experience, making sure that your website is organized in a way that makes it easy to find information that obviously it's mobile, right, optimized, but if you're on a mobile device, which a lot of people are like, I have a responsive design site, so auto, you know, it's automatically but not always, right? Content loads differently on mobile, make sure that your page time your your website is loading quickly, this is so important, people will bounce. If your website is taking five, six seconds to load, people are going to be like, Okay, I'm going to find something else. So those types of technical components, right, are really, really important. And then there's the content piece. This is the piece where I think people struggle the most, you can't just slap up 500 words and be like, Oh, I'm going to rank for this now. No, no, no, no, no, it doesn't work that way, you know, creating long form content, engaging content that people are actually looking for. That's the big one, right? And that's where keyword research comes in. So you have to spend some time figuring out what is my core audience actually looking for? And then there are things like off page SEO, right, which is like backlinks where other websites are linking to your websites. And in 2024, I think this is going to look more like brand mentions, you know, kind of PR and SEO are going to kind of become really, really close, I think. And then there's some other components too. But those are sort of the big buckets. When we think about you know, us as business owners, what we should be focusing on is we're really technically sound website that is easy to navigate, quick to load and creates a really epic user experience, content that is backed by keyword research. That is, you know, giving users exactly what they're looking for. And then some of these off page elements, like we just talked about backlinks, etc.
Monica Pitts 9:14
So when you talk about content, I think of it in like two buckets. One is like, do you have the stuff that people are looking for when they're ready to make the buying decision on your website so that they can make the decision to reach out and contact you to take the next step? Right. And I think that would be like on your services pages or on your proof pages, like in a portfolio or case studies or whatever. And then I also think of it as like you've got a blog or a podcast or, you know, some construction companies use a portfolio for this. Nonprofits would use like success stories for this but it's like continual revolving content that you put in your website. So tell me like, is one more More important than the other? Or are they like, tell me about this? How do I make it so that I get more people to my website to learn about my service? And or my organization? Yeah, that's
Nina Gibson 10:11
a really great question. So I think that one of the big things is to think about your blog as a resource hub. A lot of times when I say blog, people are like, do people even read blogs anymore, for data shows that they do. But when I say blog, you know, or blogging, I'm not talking about like, 2000. And like, six, where we're, you know, blogging about our cat and our heartbreak and all of these things, you know, like those early days of blogging, like Julia and Julia, I'm not, I'm not talking about that your blog really is sort of, you know, synonymous now with your, your resource hub. So I think when you think about the kind of content to create, this is where that market research keyword research piece comes in, right, because you understand what people are searching for. But to create content that people are looking for, that are eventually going to buy with you, or book with you, or donate or whatever it may be, I think you need to create sort of a multi content type approach. So obviously, long form articles, you know, I call these like content pillars, or like a content anchor piece, which is usually like a guide, or a how to, or what is, you know, so if you're a nonprofit that focuses on like, you know, wildlife preservation, you might write a really in depth piece about why wildlife preservation is important. And you know, you include lots of data and facts and things like that. And then maybe you have like a video series interviewing different like ecologists or things like that, right. And that becomes lives under your blog, things like that. But really, any kind of evergreen content or legacy content, like I like to call it that doesn't have a timestamp, that somebody today or somebody three years from now might be searching for is the kind of content that's going to serve you really, really well. And the beautiful thing about, you know, taking the time to create one really in depth piece of content now is that because it doesn't have that timestamp, you can update it year after year, right, it can serve you for the long haul. And then my favorite part about this is, you can repurpose that on your other platforms. So whether it's Pinterest, or Instagram or Facebook, whatever it is, you can take that one piece of content and multipurpose it, use it in your emails, etc, make it work really, really hard for you. So you know, and because you've done your keyword research, you know that it's topics that your audience is interested in. And then like you mentioned, that services page, etc, you have to sort of be strategic about the CTAs, right, the call to actions that you're using in that piece of content? Are you getting people onto your email list? Are you encouraging them, you know, are you linking to your services page, hey, if this is something you're interested in, check out our services page, we might have something that you you know, would be interested in booking. So it becomes a little bit multi layered, right? You get them there. And then your content has to get them into whatever funnel you want them to be in.
Monica Pitts 13:09
As long as you're getting them there. Because you have something on your website that they're interested in. And then once you capture their interest, you can be like, Hey, let's get to know each other better. It's it's like, exactly dating,
Nina Gibson 13:21
it is kind of like, yeah.
Monica Pitts 13:25
Um, so one question that I always have, especially for myself, so this is sidenote, my, my 13 year old like, Mom, I had to write like, two papers. And they had to be like, 250 words each this week. And I was like, Girl, like, everything that I write is at least 2000 words, I swear to God. And I have to do at least one a week. And so I don't even know what to tell you about. Like, just dictate it, edit it and send it on over like follow the rubric. Yo. So what in 2024? What's like a good length for people to like, try to achieve? Because they are always like, Oh, I just need to especially Okay, so we interview people to write their website content or like, done. We don't need to say any more than that. And I'm like, okay, don't don't be this. Don't be this. This is not gonna go only Google to can do Google, right? Only Google's allowed to have like, this one paragraph answer that actually needs 17 paragraphs to explain what's going on. Only Google can do that. Yeah, we actually have to have words on our pages. So like, what is something to shoot for? This
Nina Gibson 14:34
is such a good question. Because people see like Walmart and Amazon rank, and they're like, they're doing everything wrong. And I'm like, yeah, they can do everything wrong, and they will rank. I don't think that there's any perfect word count. I will say though, case studies show us that the average first page ranking for any kind of like, informational type query, like what is or how does this work type of question is 1500 words or more? are, you know, and so I would say like, if you want to rank on something that is even moderately competitive 2000 Plus words is probably what you should be aiming for. I think the bigger question is, what how are you answering the question? Are you meeting the user need, but when it comes to ranking, like if we want to get like analytical about it, 1500 words minimum, you know, based on data shows us,
Monica Pitts 15:28
I feel like to like, especially with the, the new onset of all of this AI, like, I know that we have some guest posts on our website, and people will send their content over. I'm excited to read it, because I think the topic is going to be awesome. And I'm not an expert in the topic, and I'll read it. And I'm like, Yeah, techy, picky. T could have written this, like, you gave me nothing to chew on. I don't have any real examples. There's no personality in this like. So I feel like you if you're really answering the question, it's a layered question that deserves information so that people can see examples and learn it like you're an educator, you're not just a writer. So I feel like that's going to reward you for taking that extra time and going that extra step, because the Chat GPT is awesome. But it's really, it's not the end all be all, it's not going to write that post for you. You have to be an expert. Also, have you found any, like evidence that Google's going to be even more discerning with AI generated content versus actual user generated content in the coming year? You would think it would be the public school system is
Nina Gibson 16:41
so? Yeah. I mean, I think that Google, Google has stated very clearly that if it's good content, it's good content, regardless of who created it. But the caveat to that being in January, not this January, but the previous January, a couple of months after Chat GPT open AI released in November of 22. They updated their each component of their algorithm, which was expertise, authority and trustworthiness. And they added an additional E for experience. And I don't think that that was by accident at all, I think that that was time specifically to come, you know, combat AI generated content. Because Google people forget, like, they're like, Oh, check, you know, check up TM, like Google has been using AI and has been on the forefront of AI for way longer, they just haven't been public about it. So if you know, having been in the industry for a really long time, I'm watching this. And I'm like, at the end of the day, Google wants to users need to be met. And if it's aI content, they're okay with that. But they're also clearly signaling to us. Your experience and firsthand perspective matters. Because at this point, anybody can go to chat to PD and be like, write me a blog post on how to budget, you know, for a family of five, and Chat GPT can spit stuff out, you know, but Chat GPT can't write an article that says, This is how I slashed you know, our family grocery budget by $500 a month for my family of five using these five specific things. Chat GPT can't do that. So, you know, if you're listening to this, I think the short answer is it doesn't matter. The long answer is, the more you infuse your personal experience and perspective that showcases that experience that expertise, that authority in that trustworthiness, the more Google is going to reward you because if I'm Google, and I'm like, shoot, there's a buttload of content entering on a daily basis now, because of AI. If you have two pieces of content for you know, the same query, which one are you going to rank better the one with the firsthand personal experience, or the one that's kind of meant, you know, so at the end of the day, use AI, you know, in a smart way, use it as a jumping off point to help you outline or help you organize your thoughts. But if you're not creating content that exudes just oozes that experience and that expertise, then you're going to have a really hard time competing.
Monica Pitts 19:15
Well, and at the very beginning, you said that, like user experience is king, right? So you would think that if you're writing an article that people want to read that has your personal experience, and it's going to keep people on the site longer, it's gonna have them digging deeper, it's gonna have them get to know you. I mean, like, it's just, it's all around when right so I feel like it's sometimes I'm mad at Google. I call it my Frenemy. Because it loves to change things. Like and it's always like, oh, man, oh, man, because when you manage like hundreds of websites that's like hundreds of retrofits every time it decides to change the way it uses maps or change the way it uses Google Analytics changed the way I mean, blob Abla I'm just saying, oh my gosh, this is so many. But yeah, I know. And my staff is like, no Monica. And I'm like, I like I can't help it. But this is what we need to do to serve people. It's not I mean, yes, it is their responsibility as website owners to know this crap. But it's really our responsibility as the purveyors of their website to to make sure that they know that it's happening, and then they can make the decision about what's going on or not. So I like that Google is putting the user first. And that people who are writing as experts in their field can get a leg up over somebody who's just chat chief eating stuff. So it's kind of a win. Yeah. Yeah, not kind of it is.
Nina Gibson 20:45
It's definitely a win. I think it's totally a win. And I think, too, you know, you said about UX. And something that's really interesting is that, for those of you that don't know, Google is embroiled in a very complicated antitrust trial right now. And one of the things that has come out of that antitrust trial, which is really amazing, is not the full, not the full like secrets, you know, but we've learned a lot more about Google's algorithm that I think they probably want us to know. And one of the things that has come out is that Google relies on previous user behavior and interaction with your website and search results, way more way more than we ever, ever thought. So Google already knows about, you know, dwell time, are you going, you know, hanging out on a website from the search results, etc. Google knows all that. But their reliance on the previous users click behavior with your website, and your own, that is way more important in the rankings than, you know, I would have ever thought as an SEO. So when we're thinking about UX, you know, that is way more important. And if Google sees that everybody is coming to your website and bouncing right away, they're gonna knock your content down. So like, that's something to think about is what you know, what keeps people on a page. And so really, you know, which all comes back to what you said is that you're happy that Google is meeting that user need. And that really is what it's about. So the UX piece of that is so so important, because Google knows they know, they're watching. So
Monica Pitts 22:22
I use it all the time when we rebuild websites, and I watch our website traffic, obviously, really closely. But it'll just kind of have this long, gradual kind of downslope, if that makes sense. And then we'll do an overhaul because the code is old, maybe it's like four or five years old, but you don't notice it. Because it's like a, just a slippery slope. And then you release it out, and you put this energy into promoting it, and then suddenly, the traffic is up again. And I think it's because you gave people a better user experience, whether it's because you're not spreading the content all the way across the screen, and you redesigned every single blog page, or whatever it is, right? I think or maybe your navigation just works better, or your call to actions are more efficient, right? I think it is all those things. So we've given people a lot of things that they probably should do to have good SEO, what are some things that they should not do that you find people doing that you're like, oh, my gosh, yeah, what are you doing to yourself?
Nina Gibson 23:26
Um, I find people not paying attention to like, headings. So one of the things that I noticed a lot that there are a lot of beautiful websites out there, but they have like 30 H ones per page. And while this isn't gonna make or break, like, you know, your your SEO strategy isn't going to fail because of this. But but but but there should only be one h1 Max, I mean, because of the way website I'll say even to even though really one, but this is something that I noticed people come to me, they're like, I just spent, you know, all this money on a website design. I'm like, yay. And then I look at it, and I'm like, oh, you know, and I almost hesitate, because I just, it kills me to say, well, it's beautiful. Bye. So I would say, you know, one, be careful with your headings pay attention, right. And unfortunately, a lot of times, headings and font styles are, you know, connected. And I do this too, on my own site. So like, if you're listening to this, and you're like, Oh, God, you know, this is it's par for the course, but things like that. I'm not paying attention to like the meta titles and the meta descriptions. utilize those right for the way that Google like Google comes to your site with little bots, you know, think of them like little spiders, and they crawl top to bottom. Like, you know, it's still a computer like we're still working in zeros and ones here like it's still coming. So Google, whatever, you know, at the top of that page, and in that meta title, that's what Google's paying it Attention to first, that's what signals to them, ooh, this is what this page is about. So be mindful of what you're putting in your page title, your meta title and your description. And also, if you have a target keyword that you're trying to target, make sure you include it on the page, I see a lot of people not doing that. I also see people still using the meta keywords tag, which kills me, I'm like, this is like 15 years old, this is not important, do not use this. If anything, it's just going to give your competitors additional insight into the keywords that you think are important. So those are some of the things that I see where I'm like, don't do that. Also, don't you know, if you have a website, and it's like, you know, click here, people still do that, like people still are using, you know, so that's the other thing, use keyword rich anchor text, because that's just super helpful for Google. And yeah, I mean, I could go on, but I don't, but those are some of the big ones that are easy to sort of fix.
Monica Pitts 26:01
The click here thing, people just they don't mean how they're like, how are people going to know where to click, and I'm like, You're gonna 24 I know, I'm like you, you know what a link looks like. And if it looks like a link, yeah, and it acts like a link, then it's a link, and people are gonna know where to go, because it'll be like, and for more information, you can visit our bla bla bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla guide,
Nina Gibson 26:26
exactly, there are ways to say it, just click here. Yeah, you can get creative. Oh,
Monica Pitts 26:32
that's funny. So I do have a fun trick for any web developers who are listening, the way that we make sure that all of our headings stay in order, and not have multiple H ones per page is we have a heading style. And we have a CSS style that matches each heading. So we have an h1, and then we have a dot h1, right? In our sales sheet. And so then all of the designers know that that exists for every single site that we build. And so it can feel right and be right at the same time. And so that is my very fancy trick. That really, really works for us. So for all you developers and designers out there, there you go, you just need two styles. And then you can have an h one, or you have an h2 style, there's an h1, Ah, perfect. will still like you.
Nina Gibson 27:23
That's such a good, that's such a good tidbit. I think that also, I mean, this is like a separate conversation gets into the conversation of designers versus developers. And that, you know, anybody at this point can probably create a show what template to sell doesn't mean that it's sound, you know, or so I think that that's a really important distinction. And it plays directly into SEO, which is why I'm bringing it up is that, you know, there's two different people, their designer and a developer. And if you're really serious about kicking butt online, you probably need both, you're probably going to need both, you know, at some point, so just that's something to keep in mind is that, you know, pretty sites are a dime a dozen, a well develop site with a, you know, no code bloat and a really nice clean back end, that's going to probably require a developer.
Monica Pitts 28:14
Yes, and, or a designer that can think like a developer. It's really interesting, because I have both sets of brains on my staff. And there's times where I look at it. And I'm like, oh, that needs to go back over to Mickey, you know what I mean? And then I'm like, Oh, this is well, because like, my job as art director is to look at both like sides of it and be like, Yeah, okay, so this isn't user friendly. Like on the front end, or the back end? And what in the heck is happening with these, like, you know, the ordering and everything? And then, and then also, like, is it attractive? Do I want to read it? Am I bored? Because if I'm bored, and I'm reviewing it, then we have a problem. Yeah, right. Yeah. It's gotta be, it's gotta be both, which is tricky. And it takes a lot of energy. For everyone. I feel like it just takes a lot of energy to care for that long about every single page. But hey, it's possible. Yeah, we can do it. Yeah. So anything else in 2024 that we need to be aware of? Tell me about it, tell everybody about it, especially if it's simple things that we can like, not be dumb about? Yeah.
Nina Gibson 29:20
So I think, you know, without going down like a total rabbit hole, but I'm going to talk about it because it's exciting is Google is currently testing. And it's been in beta since May the search generative experience, which is basically an updated version of Google. So it's where AI is integrated directly into the search results. And I've been testing it since May in beta. And it's really been interesting to watch it go through these different iterations. I'm actually going to include a link for your audience from bright edge. They've been sort of putting together the most like up to date industry sort of report Hang on what's happening with it. But it's, it's important to know because now when you go to this beta testing, you have a generative AI option for your search. And the results are very, very different than what we're used to. And so I think that the number one thing that I would think about if I'm, well, I am a business owner, I am an online business owner. But the number one thing that I would be thinking about is, is how am I meeting the users need? And I know we keep on talking about that in this episode, but I would really put that up like front and center, is my website, really, really primed to meet these needs in a way that, like, we talked about fast load time, all these things? And also, are you creating content? Are you creating an experience that people want need, right? Are you creating a website that people want to go to? So that's what I would focus on, because the generative AI experience is probably going to create a lot of opportunities for users to not have to click over to websites to stay within the search results. To not have to, you know, make that click, they're going to get their answer, because the AI is giving it to them right there. It's pulling from all different places on the web. Something that's really, really interesting is that right edge, did a study of 1000 commercial and transactional based keywords, and they looked at the current search results, and they looked at Ste beta testing, there was only a 10% overlap on the first page. So that means what SGA is serving up is really, really different than what so, you know, I would be I would be paying attention to SGA E and depends on the industry that you're in, if you're a local business, this is probably going to impact you pretty significantly, because the local pack listings like the results are changing. And if you're, you know, any other industry EECOM, anything, I would just be thinking about creating an epic user experience on your website and making sure that your content is really, really on point. And also read the bright edge article that I'll I'll share for the show notes. Because it's good to just be if you rely on Google traffic, or you want to continue growing your organic traffic, this is something to be paying attention to.
Monica Pitts 32:26
I think it'll be trickier to because if you're used to seeing a lot of traffic on your website, and you don't have to pay a lot of attention to what's going on on it, it'll probably feel a lot like when they introduced the Knowledge Graph. And suddenly, like, all the traffic went way down, and all my clients were like, Ah, my website is broken. And I'm like, No, it's just like, people don't need to go to your website to get your phone number anymore, so, or their or your hours of business or your location. So it's just all right there for them. But, man, that's kind of like scary and exciting all at the same time, especially for local business owners, because I feel like that that community is really taxed for time. So if their website is like, negatively impacted by the shift, it would, man, they're gonna need someone like you to like, get them out of that little hole or maybe to run some ads. Yeah, I mean,
Nina Gibson 33:24
I asked local because like the local pack has three listings now and Ste expands to five. So I actually think for local businesses, the impact will be more positive than negative. I think for other businesses, like you said, that rely on like, you know, they've got that article from 10 years ago that still drives, you know, 40% of the organic traffic. That yeah, depending on what the topic is, if it's something that somebody can get the answer to within the search results. Yeah, there's probably going to be an impact, you know, but I think for local, this, I think, will actually be beneficial. I think for other industries, it will be interesting to see and, you know, who knows how Google's gonna roll it out. I think I've already seen snippets of it in real time, like little pieces of SG, the SG experience being pulled into real time results, but the full experience is still in beta. So we will see, but I think that what I would be anticipating as a business owner is that AI is just going to make the way we find and consume information different, faster, more efficient. And so you know, thinking about what kind of content can I create that can't be, you know, summed up in a in a sentence that somebody could get in a search result, you know, what, what kind of content do I need to create that knew that they need to come to my website and experience so
Monica Pitts 34:50
or maybe what perspective can I offer that the chat bot can't offer? Because I do like I even found myself I have is saying Finding a contract for a lease for a new office. And I was like these words are just very Greek. I don't know, this is not a language I studied. And so I literally went to Chat GPT. And I'm like, what do these three terms mean in relative to do my contract? And it told me, but if I were learning more about it, I would have had to go to Google and like, read an article about it and get actual insight about it, instead of just going to Chat GPT and ask them what it is. It's my bestie chat GPT. Okay, so before we wrap up, I want to ask you tools. Because if somebody is, like, really motivated by this conversation, they're probably going to need to have some idea of what tool they might use. Because it's not all just, I mean, it's all out there for us. It just got to know where to look, you know? Yeah. So what are your favorites. So
Nina Gibson 35:53
I think my favorite for newbies beginners, I don't want to get overwhelmed, but I know I need to do this overwhelming thing. So it's probably Ubersuggest, because it's priced appropriately. And I think it's a really good intro level tool for people who are wanting to dip their toes into SEO. It's owned by Neil Patel, he actually just bought into the public too. So it's like $27, something like that a month, maybe 24. I don't know. And it's got keyword research. And you can upload your site and keep track of it and rankings and things like that. If you are more robust, established business, who's like, I'm gonna kick some SEO, but this year, I mean, Semrush is my favorite. It's pricey, but it's so extensive. And you can do pretty much everything with it from managing your local listing to keyword research to audits to content, I mean, it's a really, really robust tool. So that's my favorite. I've tried them all extensively. And I always come back to Semrush. If you want something inexpensive, that's just keyword research. And you're like, I don't want to deal with the fancy tools, then key search, it's like $17 a month, and you get YouTube and Pinterest terms in there. I mean, as best as they can. It's the most expensive, inexpensive keyword research tool that I know of, that's pretty comprehensive. So you know, those would be my three all different price points, do all different things. But those are the ones that I like to use. If you were in ads, you know, with Google, you've got access to their Keyword Planner. So you can do keyword research using that. Another I mean, Looker studio is another one. It's free, it integrates with Google Analytics, and Google Search Console, and you can get free report templates on there. And the number one thing that I would say if you haven't done it, because a lot of business owners don't is set up a Google Search Console account. It's free. And it's going to give you the most insight as to what's happening with your organic traffic more so than any other tool can give you because it's direct from Google. So those I mean, I there's lots of there's tons out there. But those that's those are probably the ones that I would say.
Monica Pitts 38:06
How do you see the data that comes through in like Ubersuggest or key search and relativity to using like, Google keywords planner? Is it like, pretty normal? Or do you find like a deviance in data?
Nina Gibson 38:23
I would say that, um, Ubersuggest's keysearch is pretty on par with Semrush. I personally, so having been in the space for, you know, 15 plus years and managed millions and millions of dollars of ads, in addition to SEO, I would say that Google kind of hides data with the keyword planner, I don't think it's that robust of a tool. I think it's a really good starting point. But I would say that it's not the full picture, and they're deliberately gatekeeping. You know, they don't they give you they give you the volume, but I don't think it's necessarily accurate in their, in their, how competitive they say a term is I don't think it's accurate either. So I would say that, you know, Semrush is probably the most accurate that I've used key search is on par with Semrush. And Ubersuggest is pretty good, too. I don't think it's as robust. But it's a good starting point.
Monica Pitts 39:17
I think it's funny that you say that, because there are certain topics that I'll write blogs about your site. And I'm like, you know, I really think this is an important topic because people ask me about it. So I should write about it. And then when I try to, like, pay your keywords with it, it's like Google says there's not any searches. And I'm like this, this cannot be right. You cannot tell me that no one has ever searched for these words before. And like if I would have gone into Semrush and looked at it, which I only have the free account. Now. We used to have the big account and every time I'd go in, I'd be like,
my brain just exploded. And then eventually I had to cancel it. I knew that I just I'm just gonna look at Google Search Console and that's all my The brain can handle right now,
Nina Gibson 40:01
a lot. The data is a lot. I mean, I love that's one of the things I love about this is the data. But yeah, it's a lot.
Monica Pitts 40:07
Yeah. So it is, it actually makes me feel good that you say that because I'm like, What? No, it has to people have to search for these words. And they asked me questions about, but yeah,
Nina Gibson 40:19
they hide data. And I will say on that note, like, if you are writing about something that is super relevant to your industry, or your niche, or your expertise, and you go into a keyword research 20 Like, there's no search volume, right about it anyway, especially if you go to Google, and you type it in and a lot of stuff pops up or like people also ask or things like that you're like, actually, this is just because it has zero search volume doesn't necessarily mean it's not worthwhile, right. So like, I would say that, definitely use that if it's super relevant and important. And demand jump actually did a really great case study about this. And they drove a ton of traffic on zero search volume terms with you know, so I think that be strategic about it, but don't let it deter you. But Google 100% hides data, there's no doubt about it. Yeah.
Monica Pitts 41:10
It's not as bad now as it was before. It feels like like back in the day, whenever you looked at Google Analytics results, it would be like, they had the keywords like in Google Analytics. Oh, yeah. That's, like a better way. Oh, I actually think that's better. Because like having to explain that to every client. I'm like, this is just really painful. Because it's in a different spot. Now go find it someplace else. Yeah, yeah, I'm
very glad that they did away with it wasn't a tough one,
Nina Gibson 41:39
the not provided, but like, you know, privacy and whatever. But I'm like, that's why you need Google Search Console. It's not the same, but you kind of get it, you know, so yeah.
Monica Pitts 41:49
So tell people how they can find you and contact you.
Nina Gibson 41:53
Um, yes. So you can find me on Instagram. I am incredibly inconsistent on there. But you can find me because I'm always in stories usually sharing about my, my day to day at Nina Gibson, CO. And then you can find me at my website at Nina Gibson Dot co. Come say hi, shoot me a DM. I share a lot of tidbits in my emails on Fridays that I send out. Lots of like case studies, data all that. So get your butt on there, because it's a lot of good information. And yeah, love to have our weekly
Monica Pitts 42:23
gonna get on there. Yeah, getting on there. Yeah,
Nina Gibson 42:26
I'm that I'm doing a series right now. Like, where people are emailing me their industry. And I'm providing like topic ideas based on keyword research. So like, and I'm basically like, email me, I'll give you these free things. And it's so funny, like the people who do that are so excited. I'm like, Yes, you know, so definitely. It's I love my email list. It's where I, that's where I probably am the most interactive like with my audience, so
Monica Pitts 42:50
I love it. Well, I'm gonna get on your email list, because I love emails that teach me something like that is my favorite. And if you're not teaching me something, or if I have to dig really, really hard to find what you're teaching me. I'm probably gonna unsubscribe. Yeah. Because like, that's where I'm at. I want to actually Yeah,
Nina Gibson 43:06
exactly. Email people or the writer dies, right? Like, if you're hanging out and you're reading every week, and you're, I'm gonna give you good stuff that you're not gonna get anywhere else.
Monica Pitts 43:16
Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Nina and everybody join our email list. You're going to learn something I hope you learned something today. Stick with us. Because next week, we're going to talk about podcasting. I actually did a conversation with a group of associations. And I made this exhaustive like talk talking points list details in it. So I'm going to like read through that and try to recreate the answers to their questions for you guys next week on the podcast. So subscribe, so that way you don't miss all this like fun podcasting information. And also go hop over and subscribe to Nina's list, so that way you can get more information about SEO. So thank you so much for joining us. And until next time, go forth and market with purpose.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
